Proposal - Disband/SCAlliance

Hey all. <3

After speaking to someone about SCing yesterday.. I wondered if it was a good idea to disband the alliance and for [Phi], and any other active guilds that want to join are free to come with. Other members may choose to stay with their guilds, dying or otherwise, or join us should we disband.

I have spoken to a few people already to see if maybe the idea would be received at all, and it has, so here it goes:

- The alliance is not as active as it used to be.
- To get it active we'd have to kick a bunch of guilds and invite some new ones, with reqs
- Even if we got decent guilds, then what? We can't host/teach DoASCs, other types of SCs, or even GvG/HA
- If we can at least learn how to SC properly, we can teach our own guildies and future allies.
- Experienced players are getting difficult to find. Many players have quit, gotten bored, finished HoMs, and are waiting for GW2.

~ If GW2 does not release soon early next year, I plan on looking into maybe setting the alliance up again by the end of the year/beginning of next. Assuming our members are proficient enough SC'ers by then. With the guilds that are active now if they wish to join us then - namely [DLRR]. If we hate the SC alliances, we can set up an alliance sooner. I would also like a fresh start to see who really still has their heart in playing, and participating as an active alliance member.

In my opinion, we should disband as an alliance, and then anyone who wants to stick together, can. But in order to set up a decent alliance again, as great as it used to be, we need to cater to what the active players nowadays tend to want - title-hunting, SCing, PvPing.

There are three options for expanding our horizons:
1. [Phi] Alliance disbands, [Phi] and any allied guilds join SC alliance.
2. [Phi] >members< join SC guilds as members, return to original guild when they want to. Alliance stays intact.
3. We ([Phi] members + allies who want to join) use our alternate guild to join SC alliance, we move back to original guild when we feel competent enough. Alliance stays intact.

Thing is - if half of us leave [Phi] in order to join a SC alliance, that's half the guild gone. May as well take the entire thing. >.< I personally go with option one, where we split, everyone heads their way, and we can rejoin if we so choose in the future.

I would like a reply from as many people as possible, please. Message me on Facebook, reply here, wherever. All opinions are welcome.

- Tabs <3

Edit: I would also like to mention that I will be checking out alliances with my alt account before I go ahead and ask for our guilds to join any. =)

Edit 2: I would like the names of the people who would leave their current guild to choose option two or three: To leave the alliance to SC and return at a later date. >IF< we cannot manage number One.

[Phi]
Amaya Arisu
Grekisk Eld
General Sappp

OMG, thats indubitably most dramatical.

I suppose a guild is where u meet friends andd u fight together. With the same objective. Unity is Strenght. I say, u create a special guild to teach new players. In Tribalwars and Ikariam, the most powerful alliances always have a recruit alliance. Once u reach a certain point, u may go to the big alliance. We do the same. Phi College, pourquoi non?

Option one, in my opinion, is too radical. As I said before, a guild is to be takken serious. All those who do not do so should be treated as traitors. You may say this is only a game, but is in the "safeness" of their chair behind the computer, that people show their true personality, being it good or bad.

I assume ur not thinking about leaving with the officers and leave the others to rot somewhere.

Option 2, in my opinion fails, as u are telling the phiers to enter a guild with out their true loyalty. And that does not seem correct to me. If I enter a guild, it is to be forever, or at least, until I get kicked. Anywayz, 3 with some adjustments would be fairly good. Though I do not understand whats so dramatically bad about phi.

Je crois que c'est tout.

I await ur answers.

P.S: I'd still like to talk to Angelica Bloodriver x)

Thanks for replying Dinis. =)

As for leaving others to rot, whaaaaat? HELL NO. XD

If allies and guildies refuse to disband or go to a SC alliance, I have to name the people that do and/or want to go and learn. Because we are being stopped by staying in an alliance where no one can actually teach us properly. Not everyone will SC, but lots of us wish to learn from experts. Then we can lead an alliance again in GW, if not straight into GW2.

I prefer to keep Phi intact and all members together in the same guild. Please bear that in mind. ^^

Again we have the same problem:

We are going to an alliance with the sole purpose of sucking their knowledge, until we adopt it too, and then fly away. When u enter an alliance, I will repeat myself is to fight with them, to get them in 1st place. I dont think thats quite loyal. What about the others. All I see is officers getting in a SC. Who would monitor the activities in Phi, to receive u properly?

Then I suggest we go to an SC alliance as an entire guild. we would all be together. But ur an Alliance Leader, u should care for ur "subjects", what will u do to the other guilds? And are u willing to abdicate of ur leadership? ARE YOU?

Read the title post once again Dinis.
We're stuck in dying alli. Not sure you noticed but many experienced ppl left recently to support Kristina's guild.
If we stay as we are, we'll rot.
If we recruit and try to rebuild, we'll fail. GW is dying, no new active players, no new active guilds.
It's time for change and options 1 seems the best to me, because it keeps ALL active players from WHOLE alliance in 2 guilds together. We won't leave anyone behind. And the dead guilds will remain in possesion of alt accounts of active players.

Yes it's a radical change, but all non-radical changes we did were vain.

Also remember Phi is loyal, we might stay in the new alliance, find there plenty of new frinends and be happy.
Tabs wanted to say, that we could always return to where we are now if something went wrong. Not that we are going to leave them.

Very well. But the thing about GW being dying is most concernable.
I honestly never noticed such a thirst to do SC in our guild, that u could not find enough players to do it. One of us most know how to do it. btw: Kristina's Guild= DLRR, right?
In option 1, will we keep as the dragonfly effect? And, will ALL the members be able to join, or only the happy fortunate

Option 1 ftw.

id say option 1 is the best bet i know im just getting back in the ally but when i use to be in (DARK) way back when our ally was very active and helpful. since ive joined (Phi) ally chats been pretty slow aside from the recent spike from this. so my vote is for option 1

Indeed. Dinis, Kristina's guild is a new one elsewhere.

Those who left us, they are not experienced in DoASCs - the ones like Mesway, Trenchway. DwG isn't similar.

Going to try to get more guild leaders to comment.

What you called my 'subjects' - my friends - they don't play anymore. They got bored. Left. Many players are leaving once they finished HoM because GW is not generating enough new content.

We have to start learning what we never knew before. =)

I will never desert the guild. Ever. GL is always going to be me.

Holding up an entire alliance's activity at roster level is something I have no control over. I can only kick and invite guilds; it is up to them to recruit, to get new people, to find experienced members. It's getting difficult. I want to play with my remaining friends in the alliance before they disappear too, and maybe some new friends will be decent. IF our new alliances do not work out, then we can move back and I'll have to go through the tedious processes of inactive guild booting, but that is better than trolls.

In GW2, we are starting our own alliance again, it's called The Order of [Phi]. There is no question about that. I am working on a forum for it with an old member from our alliance.

We even have the domain, but there will be no access until the forum is complete: Order of Phi

Avast has blocked a Troy horse while entering the GW2 page.
But our page isn't infected, is it? We should take care of this too.

I use Avast!
Infection: JS:IFrame-AC [Trj]

wait which sc and doa alliance are you joining?

A good one

if its ok, i will post here some of the opinions from my guild members, so they wont have to make an account here.

Tig Raskil said (one of my officers): Well i dont personally care about SC and i feel that if we do what you sugest, its not going to solve anything. Likely, we'd just end up staying where we went, never getting back together. Plus, in playing it's pretty natural for poeple to play for a long while and then quit - natural process and dont think there's much you can do about it. even if we managed to get a small alliance proficient in SC's it wouldnt last long.
Poeple quit and new poeple start all the time. if you want to learn SC, you could just ask for someone to teach you, then teach the guild leaders, and let them teach the guildies. no need to disband.

I see. So Dragonfly effect will never be again? D:

About the destiny of the guild, I shall support Tig Raskil's point of view, as I believe it is the one that best suits me.

WHY do you think we would disband and leave each other. Phi and DLRR would stay, all active players would move there and those 2 guilds would stay together, so NO, this is NOT the end of Phi.

Tig, whe'd like to SC, we tried some, but very few people are interested, not enought to make a group. Nor alliance events are visited by more than 7 people. And no recruiting does help.

This thread is called disband which is not correct, we wouldn't disband, only move to 2 guilds and than find a new place to play with more people.

This change would bring only the good. Another 7 active guilds of experienced players online most of time.

The alliance as a whole would disband. Not the guilds, and the most active guilds would be sticking together.

Andrew, I am in the process of scouting for a decent DoA/SC alliance/guilds.

And in response to Tig:

About learning to SC: Being the AL, and one of the people who will bother to host SCs, I have to be one of the ones who have to leave to SC myself. This is why I presented option 2: Those of us who DO want to learn, we will leave and return. I spoke to someone personally about SCing, and one person trying to teach an entire team their jobs - it doesn't work like that. We need a few experienced people, especially tankers.

Also, for not getting back together as an alliance - that is an assumption. In effect, I am looking for a laid-back SCing alliance. Not everyone has to SC. But the option is there to learn.

> I will not be leaving my place as GL in [Phi], AL or not. I have more than one account and will just swap one for the other. I run them simultaneously =) <

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If you guys want to stay in the alliance, I will need some opinions on the guilds that must stay and those that have to leave us, or merge. So far more people seem to support Option 1. I honestly don't mind keeping the alliance together under [Phi], but same changes will have to be made, and some allies may leave to learn to SC, then return.

Bottom line: We need more active guilds who will participate in alliance events, if you want this place to stay as is. If I can get more help in finding these (there's just myself and I I Kiss Of A Rose who guild-hunt), then excellent, we don't have a dying alliance for much longer. Alliance effort for a better alliance, right?

If you are fine with that, then so am I.

I just made my choice... I'll just do what you wanna do. Don't really care. I knew how to make money all along anyway, so doesn't matter to me I guess.. but if you become trolls after this happens, I will kick your asses to the moon.

One vote for option 1.

Change is one of those necessarily evils. If something remains static it will die. This is especially valid for the alliance. We have to change. There is no doubt about that.

I feel that we are at a stage where we need the input of new people. We know who the elites / old players in our alliance are, and that knowledge has been mostly shared amongst ourselves by now. If we want to grow as an alliance we need to have new things - exciting things - to push us forward.

I find that especially the people in phi have grown close in multiple little groups, and we are to some extent a little family. Relationships have been built that I can understand that people are afraid of losing. But this is the virtual world, and we need to accept that especially here things change often and fast. I was harshly reminded of that again when Kristina started her own guild and my friends followed her. It is the way it is.

What I think our alliance needs is to not have the officers leave, but that the active guilds move together. Get variety in the alliance. I don't think we should join an SC alliance - what about all the people that have different interests?

I am not usually involved in alliance politics - but what i am not sure I see here is what Tabs' vision for her alliance is. You are in a hot spot Tabs, you have a lot of eyes on you, but to me you are a good leader, and I'll follow you in what you decide. But I think there is uncertainty because (from what I can see) we need a goal that we can work towards. Faction Alliances are solely into getting lux / kurz faction, SC Alliances are solely into SC's, the same for pve, the same for pvp, and so on. If you just want an active alliance as your goal, that isn't going to work.

From what I can see it seems like you just want to have an alliance where people can chill and do what they want to. If that is your aim, then that is fine, but you gotta remember that a "laid back" alliance is usually one that has people go inactive or gets members that wants more "action" and leave when they do not find that.

Okay so instead of me just babbling and not helping, I'd like to make a few more suggestions, that you can think about if you want to Tabs.

A - Kick the inactive guilds, and recruit guilds that give us variety. A mix of say 2 SC guilds, some pvp guilds, pve guilds, faction farming guilds, and so on. ACTIVE guilds. This seems more appropriate for keeping the phi alliance together, and giving a variety of interest.

B - Go for option 1 that you gave us, disband the alliance, but let some of the guilds merge into one guild, so that we are together still, and join an alliance from there. (haha i'd like to see the politics on who decides to step down as a gl to make space for another one =P)

C - Perhaps... (and people are gonna shoot me for this one - thats okay i still love you guys =P But i'm doing this to help the gears in your minds turn in a different direction) Perhaps make one huge mix of everyone in the alliance. I have no idea who is in the other guilds apart from the ones that pipe up in ally chat - hell i don't know who some of the gl's are in the other guilds, so if there is a way that we can enhance that, then perhaps a "fresh" start between guildies and allies might be nice.

So yeah some food for thought there. If I HAVE to pick the options that Tabs suggested - then I'm willing to leave as an "officer" to gain knowledge (I already know the DoASC and FoWSC runs, as well as the Deep) and help set up runs.

But above all I would prefer to stay with Phi and join a new alliance along with our current active guilds. Does it HAVE to be an SC alliance? What is the majority of the alliance's interest? I would personally want to join a SC guild / alliance. But perhaps tabs you'd want to consider what the majority of the alliance keeps themselves busy with =)

Kk enough speeching for today! I'm outta here!

-Z

Firstly - Very long thread (I've always envied native english that they can write such essays without any problems. )

Zohariel Ironfist wrote:Change is one of those necessarily evils. If something remains static it will die. This is especially valid for the alliance. We have to change. There is no doubt about that.

I agree with your point of view, could not say better.

Zohariel Ironfist wrote:A - Kick the inactive guilds, and recruit guilds that give us variety. A mix of say 2 SC guilds, some pvp guilds, pve guilds, faction farming guilds, and so on. ACTIVE guilds. This seems more appropriate for keeping the phi alliance together, and giving a variety of interest.

You won't get a PvP nor SC guild to our alliance, we have no XP in that and they wouldn't benefit from being with us.

Zohariel Ironfist wrote:B - Go for option 1 that you gave us, disband the alliance, but let some of the guilds merge into one guild, so that we are together still, and join an alliance from there. (haha i'd like to see the politics on who decides to step down as a gl to make space for another one =P)

That's exactly what we'd do, but let the current GL continue GLing. Tabs is bussy student at university, not a robot. Let her enjoy the game instead of dealing with 2 guilds.

Zohariel Ironfist wrote:Does it HAVE to be an SC alliance? What is the majority of the alliance's interest?

We don't have to join a SC alliance, we just want to join any active alliance. Tabs suggested a SC alliance because of some of us got hacked recently and need to make money.
Remember SC is PvE based, so you can also do VQs, missions, GW Beyond or dungs with them, not only SCs.

Zohariel Ironfist wrote:Kk enough speeching for today! I'm outta here!
-Z

Cya, have a good day

Well, you know. So far it's been some from [Phi] answering, a couple of [DLRR], the GL of [ANF] - what about the other guilds? I know many people are busy, but I guess it's just time to plague alliance chat to tell them about this thread, maybe they haven't caught wind of it yet.

And Zo, I meant SC alliance - not everyone is required to SC, but I am sure an alliance will welcome a decent chunk of members.

As for leaving as an 'officer', I am not sure where that came from. It would be me, and anyone else, who wishes to swap an alt or leave to gain knowledge, and then return to share it. I don't mind that IF that is what you guys want. This does mean we all have to recruit active guilds though, if more of us look for some, the better the odds of activity in our alliance is.

I merely expressed my opinions on a matter I believe to be an issue, and gave some options (there are some laid-back SC alliances; i.e. laid-back PvE with a focus on SC. We have a focus on laid-back PvE). But when it boils down to it, I will be doing what you guys want, not what I want. Because even if everything stays the same, I have an alternate account I can swap in and I can still learn to SC myself with a pro team and then come teach you guys. Not a problem.

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I see two options people would go for:

1. Active members merge into remaining guilds - and then:

A. We join another alliance community
B. We recruit more guilds.

IF you want, we can give B a try, while those who want to SC, leave. Me (on my alt), Logan, Alex minimum - Us three definitely will. Tankers in particular, as the entire group will depend on them in DoA.

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I have to add this as well: I'm not sure we should be keeping guilds in the alliance where GLs + Officers don't have time to manage the guild anymore. Or don't really want to, or come back because they feel obliged. They deserve a chance to move on, and we should do what is best for alliance activity. They have been extremely loyal, and we definitely appreciate that they have. But maybe it's time to let go and move on? I feel extremely bad saying this, especially due to some support I have received on a personal level. Managing an active guild requires a lot of effort and time - however, life gets in the way, or it gets boring, tedious. Etc. If anyone has an alt, I'd say leave the guild with an alt and join us. Unless they're planning to build the guild up again.

Sorry I had to mention it. =/

i think some ppl dont like change, but at this time i think change is necessary.
it might be refreshing lol.
also me and Sushi wouldnt mind to guild hunt as well if you need help with it.
i think everybody should put in an efford tho, so not one or few ppl carry the load, after all everybody has a real life out there, some where.
i just hope the next WoC part will be a bit more exciting, more ppl might come online again.
do the other GL's know about this? or are they just non responsive?

I don't think they are on these days. At least I didn't notice.

hum hum fum derp!! yah i read the first page of this 2 page wall of text... and yeah Scing is something i've always wanted to get into... preferably something that doesnt need me to have a shmit of gear and builds at the cost of 100 plat... but yah, im in for anything really... doesnt really matter what people do or does not as im primarliy playing to have fun with people i enjoy the company of which would be the people in this guild!!

Im down with what you decide to do Tabs!

I can look for guilds if you need more people to, you only mentioned a couple of people doing that atm.